Curse

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Ah your true colours come out.

My true colors were always to call people who make moronic statements morons. You actually think that you can correlate the real world and a videogame. Sorry, that strikes me as moronic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

There's no reason you'd defend these kiddies using racist language unless you were one of them too.

Wow. You are on a roll now. You don't understand the difference between agreeing with someones right to be heard, and agreeing with their message. That is ok though, we've established you are a moron.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Of course I'm making a big assumption but judging from your posts, I don't think I'm far off.

You are. You can't point to one racist thing I've said. It's all "guilt by association", but I'm not even associating with anyone.

Xelig · May 20, 2005, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

I believe strongly in the idea that you can say whatever you want, however you want, to whoever you want. Just keep in mind everyone else can do the same, and they are likely to disagree with you if you are a racist.

Not just disagree with you but be very offended by it. Cover it up however you want, it's still intended to hurt and offend someone and it's still against the rules (and against general morality, for most normal people). Just like anything else in life, there's no reason why someone should be allowed to break the rules and get away with it. You wouldn't get away with break laws against racism in the US, so why should you get away with breaking anti-racism rules in GW?

Quote:

That is exactly what I said! Videogames apply to real life!

Unless you hadn't noticed, American and Korea aren't on the in-game map. This is about RL people casting RL aspersions upon each other's RL race and nationality. It doesn't matter that the medium is a videogame, this isn't videogame racism we're dealing with, so my analogy fits. But congratulations on failing to make that connection for yourself.

Quote:

I understand there are terms that limit speach in the game, and the mods are free to enforce them, as I have already said.

Yes, just like the police work entirely autonomously without any input or tipoffs from the general public. Because the civilians wouldn't want to "narc" on people and be "tattletales". It's darn lucky the police are able to monitor every single person in the country so they know when bad things are happening!

Quote:

Moron.

Ahh, resorting to the lowest common denominator. Never fails to amuse. And makes me wonder why I try to argue with someone who can't rise above it.

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

Good god, what a group of crybabies. Calling people immature and the declaring you will be adopting 3rd grade tattletale tactics is laughable. There is no need for a "Racist filter". They just need to improve the ignore function. Get over yourselves.

"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo."

Just ignoring it has put us in this predicament in the first place.

It's clear that this argument isn't just about ourselves in a selfish manner. This is about all of us. The ones willing to speak for others. If anyone should stop 3rd grade tactics you should look no further than yourself. You shouldn't come to an argument like this with your wiffle bat when most of us have sledge hammers.

2

Xelig · May 20, 2005, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo."

Heh, didn't spot that quote before. It would almost be clever... if it was used in the right context (jealousy? Yes, that's it: racism offends me because I'm jealous that I can't spout racist insults too!)

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

Unless you hadn't noticed, American and Korea aren't on the in-game map. This is about RL people casting RL aspersions upon each other's RL race and nationality. It doesn't matter that the medium is a videogame, this isn't videogame racism we're dealing with, so my analogy fits. But congratulations on failing to make that connection for yourself.

That is quite a stretch, but mark it in your "win" column if it makes you feel better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

Yes, just like the police work entirely autonomously without any input or tipoffs from the general public. Because the civilians wouldn't want to "narc" on people and be "tattletales". It's darn lucky the police are able to monitor every single person in the country so they know when bad things are happening!

That is seriously the most East German Stasi crap I've heard in a long time. Do you spy on your neighbors? Do you want the police to have total contol?

Land of the free - as long as no ones feelings get hurt.

Bleh, I'm dropping this like a bag of hammers. I'm not a racist no matter how hard you try to shoehorn that argument. I guarantee you I associate with a more diverse group of people than most will ever meet. I enjoy freedom for everyone, and you seek to limit it. Enjoy the game.

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

Land of the free - as long as no ones feelings get hurt.

Rusty,

Freedom is a myth in any civilization. Personal liberties on the other hand, which is what you should say, only apply when you don't impose your "speech or freedoms" onto another's personal liberty.

Taking your hammers to go play somewhere else is probably the smartest thing you've said in this thread.

2

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by twotimes

Rusty,

Freedom is a myth in any civilization. Personal liberties on the other hand, which is what you should say, only apply when you don't impose your "speech or freedoms" onto another's personal liberty.

Taking your hammers to go play somewhere else is probably the smartest thing you've said in this thread.

2

Ok, had to respond to this. Your "stats" that 41% of Americans are illiterate in one form or another are rediculous. You've yet to effectivly counter anything I've said. All you have contributed is threatening me with a sledgehammer.

I have a different opinion (not even a racist one, or can you show me where I've made racist comments?), so you automatically do your best to paint me as an idiot, and then threaten me. You sound like a real champion of personal liberties.

Shadowdaemon · May 20, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

ok my earlier statement may have sounded like i was defending people being racist on here by saying you should ignore them, i wasnt try to say that it was k that they did that, all i am saying is that there is no way it is going to be stopped, maybe taking screenshots will get rid of some people, maybe it wont, but all they want to do is bother you, there is no way they even really know what your skin color is or anything about you, just dont listen to them, all they want to do is make you mad

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

Ok, had to respond to this. Your "stats" that 41% of Americans are illiterate in one form or another are rediculous. You've yet to effectivly counter anything I've said. All you have contributed is threatening me with a sledgehammer.

I have a different opinion (not even a racist one, or can you show me where I've made racist comments?), so you automatically do your best to paint me as an idiot, and then threaten me. You sound like a real champion of personal liberties.

41% of Americans are illiterate in some form or another. The widest read newspaper in the country is USA today. USA today is intentionally written at an 8th grade level because unfortunately people have difficulty reading the NY times or the wall street journal. That is just a fact.
I never called you a racist or an idiot. The text doesn’t lie though. I wouldn’t call you an idiot, maybe ignorant, but that isn't my fault if you take it in a negative context to demean you. That’s not my fault, and I don’t begrudge you for it.

Definition of Ignorant: Lacking knowledge, education, or experience; uneducated; inexperience.

To claim that I threatened you is ridiculous. The sledgehammer vs. wiffle bat is an association of difference between your arguments, and we’ll say to simplify, mine.

I am a champion of personal liberties. If you want to argue about illiteracy with me, please spell correctly. Rediculous is not correct, and begins to prove my point. Again, I don’t look down on you for it, that isn’t the point, and not my intention. Until 1930 my entire family was illiterate. I just take it very seriously now that I am carrying the torch for my people.

As far as you opinion is concerned, it doesn't hold any water with me. That's why I say what I am saying to show another view. If you think it's painting you as idiot... well what else do you want me to say. I can't help that.

2

PieXags · May 20, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Wow, this went from a halfway decent thread with some good ideas to a kiddy bitch fest.

Stand up, stretch yer legs, grab a drink, and play the game.

Cheers.

Divinitys Creature · May 20, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

if WaW involved chosing balthazar or lyssa as your god or something that wasn't related to real life geographic regions then this wouldn't be so bad. People would say Lyssa rules and Balthazar drools or something. There would prolly still be some problems because in tombs the local chat would still show up different writing that would still be something racists could pick on. Anyways I think WaW is not cool and splits people up.

Qi Ang · May 20, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by twotimes

41% of the U.S. population is either illiterate or functioning illiterate.

lol, where'd you get that number?

Seems rather hypocritical to discuss ignorance and then not cite sources for evidence presented

Sun Warrior · May 20, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Wow, this went from a halfway decent thread with some good ideas to a kiddy bitch fest.

Stand up, stretch yer legs, grab a drink, and play the game.

Cheers.

Amen to that.

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qi Ang

lol, where'd you get that number?

Here's a link with cited places you can find this information on your own.

http://www.efmoody.com/miscellaneous/illiteracy.html

In fact, you can find it all over the place.

2

Tobyus · May 20, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

**Maybe more people should read the terms of agreement, before just accepting and going into the game**

Not meaning to disagree with you or anything, but I don't recall seeing a TOS or Terms of Agreement or anything I had to accept to log on last night...

Poppinjay · May 20, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

I don't know how much of a suggestion this is... but it has to be said... If i hear much more of these stupid kids shouting out slurs against the koreans/europeans, im gonna start screenshotting, and sending it in to anet.

I agree, and hope you DO start screen shooting. But I don't think that this is a filter is the issue since it would likely filter out things that people legitimately want to say that are not racist. But I agree that the problem is out of hand. I saw someone online the other day with the NAME of "White Power Boy" and my jaw just dropped.

It's a role playing game true, and so if somebody wants to make a chracter that supposedly hates centaurs, or Dwarves (the magical kind, not real people who suffer from dwarfism) or any other fictional creature in the game then fine. But bigoted references that refer to objects outside of the fictional playworld should be dealt with swifly. I wouldn't expell the idiot from the game first time, probably. But after a warning to keep his hate speech to himself, 3 months off the game, and the third time off for good. I know that might seem too tolerant a policy of hate speech, but the problem is that you don't know these people's ages or if multiple people play a character from the same copy of the program.

[As an interesting side note, I was wondering why all the faces in the game fit a generally caucasian mold, and ultra-fit body type (which would seem to be necessary for warriors and rangers, but not casting classes). It would have been nice to be able to create a pudgy monk, or a balding ranger. It would also be nice to be able to change the bust size of women---not to make them larger necessarily, but to allow players to make more realistic people. Especially since there are real women playing this game, even though they probably have a low ratio to men.]

Anyway, start taking those screen shots. I feel guilty because I didn't report "white power boy", I just thought "now there is a name that won't last long", and it was after that that I realized how racist a lot of the chat is.

Poppinjay

Also, I like the idea of different countries playing against each other for the favor of the gods (kind of like a GW olympics), but do we have to be such poor losers when they best us, and even worse in victory?

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 20, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qi Ang

lol, where'd you get that number?

Seems rather hypocritical to discuss ignorance and then not cite sources for evidence presented

Well, a true known fact... 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

But meh, in other words, i think this post was a mistake, rather then rallying people together... it seems I've caused an uproar between different views. I've been reading alot of it, and i think basicaly all of us are agreeing that it isnt right, so eh... stop with all the arguements like that, just discuss the topic, not eachother.

Basicly, ill be only reporting the people i find that do it alot/say really racist things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobyus

Not meaning to disagree with you or anything, but I don't recall seeing a TOS or Terms of Agreement or anything I had to accept to log on last night...

Ummm, when you install the game, you're suppose to read it as you get into it... At the bottom in the smaller letter (which probably werent read either) it states, accept if you have read and *Comply* with the statement. In a sense, i dont have the exact copy.

Shelvinarr · May 20, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I would have to say, racism is how one feels personally, you can't force someone to change how they feel/act/think. That's taking away from their given rights as a human being. However, slurs of such nature I believe are not "right" in a sense that, why judge another person based on where they live, their skin, etc? I realize all the factors to that question, I know the answer, but being human I can't help but to keep asking myself that very question. My thoughts on racism in this game are of the following, it should not be accepted or acceptable, a filter is not any good because the message is still going acrost. Banning such people for racial slurs would cause "an uprising" only to create more problems. What can you do? Put those people on ignore and forget about them, if that is how they want to view another race/human, who are you to tell them they can't think how they want? I'm not saying racism is acceptable in any way, I'm just saying you can't change how people think. I know all about racism, when people find out I'm German, they immediately call me a Nazi. I am not all about that at all. I may be German, but that doesn't mean I'm something negative. Stereotypes aren't always right, just use your head. This game is here for your enjoyment, no need to do anything but enjoy. That is all I really have to say.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 20, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelvinarr

I would have to say, racism is how one feels personally, you can't force someone to change how they feel/act/think. That's taking away from their given rights as a human being. However, slurs of such nature I believe are not "right" in a sense that, why judge another person based on where they live, their skin, etc? I realize all the factors to that question, I know the answer, but being human I can't help but to keep asking myself that very question. My thoughts on racism in this game are of the following, it should not be accepted or acceptable, a filter is not any good because the message is still going acrost. Banning such people for racial slurs would cause "an uprising" only to create more problems. What can you do? Put those people on ignore and forget about them, if that is how they want to view another race/human, who are you to tell them they can't think how they want? I'm not saying racism is acceptable in any way, I'm just saying you can't change how people think. I know all about racism, when people find out I'm German, they immediately call me a Nazi. I am not all about that at all. I may be German, but that doesn't mean I'm something negative. Stereotypes aren't always right, just use your head. This game is here for your enjoyment, no need to do anything but enjoy. That is all I really have to say.

I never once said these people couldnt "*Think*" how they want... But, if they continue to shout these things out in the "all" read messages, rather then at least keeping it to their team, or better yet, to theirselves.

This is like when the priests said it wasnt so bad to rape the little kids, as they have repented for their sins. It's going against the law!

This game has a "Law", and it's called "The terms of agreement", in which we all agree to before we play this game. So, what im stating, is that this law should be obeyed.

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qi Ang

Seems rather hypocritical to discuss ignorance and then not cite sources for evidence presented

How can ignorance be applied to me when I had the information? You are the one laughing at a claim, and I presented the information without hesitation.

Not citing a source has nothing to do with ignorance by the way. When you debate a subject you dn't show your hand in the beginning. That's amateurish, I'm in to win it.

2